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2025年6月27日 星期五

A Big Month for Superhero Movies


July's around the corner, and I assume that both Superman and Fantastic Four: First Steps will be arriving in your local multiplex soon.  In my neck of the woods Superman arrives July 9, and Fantastic Four: First Steps hits theaters on July 23.

With all the superhero movies already on record, you wouldn't think that either Superman or Fantastic Four: First Steps would be such a big deal, but both films represent something of a pivot for their respective studios, and both DC and Marvel have hinged a lot of their future plans on the success of either movie.

2025's Superman will be the seventh film to feature Superman as its main character, not counting the serial features and shorts of the 1940s, animated features and movies in which Superman was (arguably) a secondary character.  This newest attempt at the Man of Steel follows Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom, a film which was the last entry in the DC Extended Universe, or DCEU.  In the wake (if you'll excuse the slight pun) of the DCEU's implosion, 2025's Superman will serve as the first movie in the new DC Universe, or DCU.

Superman's director, James Gunn, has claimed that the new DCU will retain some elements of the DCEU moving forward, but I highly doubt that any of these elements will be especially obvious given the rather ignominious end suffered by that earlier cinematic universe.  I could see them holding on to cast members or plot elements that Gunn was previously involved with, but I doubt we'll see any of the major players or events from the DCEU in the DCU.

Looking forward, Superman will lead into Supergirl, which will hit theaters around a year from now.  That film is already in post-production.  On the heels of that movie will be Clayface, The Authority and The Brave and the Bold, all of which are in various stages of development.

And I've got to say here, Clayface sounds a whole helluva lot like a CBM version of The Substance, a movie which was a surprise hit last year.  Those involved in the production are comparing it to The Fly, but allowing for Hollywood logic I'm thinking The Substance.  It might not even fall within the DCU proper.

The Authority and The Brave and the Bold, however, will definitely be connected to Superman in various ways.  The Engineer, a prominent member of the The Authority, is already set to appear in Superman, and The Brave and the Bold, focusing as it does on the Bat-Family, seems like an ideal match for what Gunn is attempting in Superman.  James Mangold's Swamp Thing, assuming he's still attached as director once that movie finally enters production, should also be part of the DCU.

There are also various television series in development, all of them following Creature Commandos' lead.  There will be another season of Peacemaker, followed by Lanterns and maybe even Booster Gold if that series ever gets off the ground.  I'm not that enthusiastic about any of these efforts, partly because I've lost a lot of my patience with the tie-in TV shows (thanks, Marvel), and partly because I don't subscribe to HBO Max.  If a friend raves over one or more of them I'll give them a look, but otherwise I plan of having them pass me by.

Also, and I have to be honest here, I've always found the Green Lantern mythos boring.  I get that some people love it, but for me the idea of a guy with a ring that can basically do anything is less than interesting.  I've tried with some of those comics, but no, the concept just isn't working for me.


So much for Superman.  What about Fantastic Four: First Steps?  Well, to begin with it will be the fourth movie to feature the Fantastic Four, or the fifth movie if you count the Roger Corman version from the 90s.  Fantastic Four: First Steps will be the 37th (!) film in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, and the first within its Phase Six.  This phase will include Spider-Man: Brand New Day, Avengers: Doomsday and Avengers: Secret Wars.

And let us not forget the two MCU films which rounded out the MCU's Phase Five this year, these being the disastrously bad Captain America: Brave New World and the far superior Thunderbolts.  Even Thunderbolts, however, was something of a financial disappointment for the studio, despite the fact that audiences and critics got firmly behind it.

The MCU may not have gone down in flames like the DCEU, but Marvel Studios has definitely been put on notice that expectations are higher now.  Gone are the days when something like Captain Marvel can skate by on its connectedness to other, bigger films.  Audiences aren't willing to sit through that kind of thing any longer, not with movies like Ant Man: Quantumania, Eternals and Brave New World in our collective memory.  The pressure is on Marvel to actually make this one good, and if it somehow fails (which, at this point in time, seems unlikely), it will have to return to the 'ol drawing board and revise its future plans.

TV shows aside, at the time of writing future MCU films seem to be either Doctor Strange 3 or Black Panther 3, followed by X-Men, which is a strong possibility for 2028 or thereabouts.  The director of Thunderbolts has already been hired for X-Men, and this MCU adaptation of the world's most popular mutant soap opera is probably the MCU's most anticipated movie to date.

In my opinion any Marvel X-Men film that veers closer to Jonathan Hickman's work on the characters should do well.  I know there are a lot of Chris Claremont fans out there, but no, that kind of angst wouldn't translate well into a movie.  TV?  Sure, some people loved it in the CW Flash, but it wouldn't work in a movie.

Of the two films, Superman and Fantastic Four: First Steps, I'm definitely looking forward to Fantastic Four WAY more.  I admire James Gunn, and I think what he did with Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 was amazing, but I've been waiting for a good Fantastic Four movie forever.  I think John Byrne's work on that title in the 80s was classic, and I'd love to see some of that science fiction weirdness up on a screen.

Not that I'm not open to Superman being as good as, or even better than Fantastic Four: First Steps  I'm very open to the possibility.  If both movies are genuinely good we all win, and who knows what doors the success of both might open in the future?  Maybe another shot at The Flash?  Another Ghost Rider?  I'd love either of those things to happen, and there is still a wealth of stories and characters to draw from in the comics.  Dare I hope for a Captain Atom movie?  A Punisher kills the MCU adaptation?  Some of the weirder Epic and Vertigo comics from back in the day?

Anyway, see you at the local theater.  Here's hoping July is a good month for comic book movie fans.

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2023年3月3日 星期五

Upcoming Superhero Movies in the Order I Want to See Them 4


The ones I look forward to the most are at the top.  The ones I look forward to least are at the bottom.  Some of the dates I found for some of these movies are less than solid.  As always, Sony's release dates and future plans are to be treated with extreme skepticism.

Fantastic Four (2025)

This movie doesn't start shooting until next year, and at the time of writing all that we know is that Matt Shakman, who directed WandaVision, is in talks to helm Fantastic Four.  No cast announcements have been made.

Those of us who grew up reading comics are, I imagine, all equally anxious to see how Marvel Studios incorporates their "first family" into the larger MCU.  We've already seen an alternate version of Reed Richards in Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness, but Fantastic Four is where we see the "real" version of this character alongside his famous teammates.

Now that Marvel has exhausted the original Avengers lineup (with the possible exclusion of the Hulk), the success of Fantastic Four will be critical for the studio.  As a longtime fan of the Fantastic Four I hope they pull it off.  There are a lot of great stories there.

The Flash (2023)

All I can say is FINALLY.  This summer I'll FINALLY be able to see The Flash in a movie theater, and what's more he'll be appearing alongside an alternate universe version of himself, Michael Keaton's Batman, Ben Affleck's Batman. Michael Shannon's Zod and an alternate universe version of Supergirl.

Does the inclusion of Ezra Miller bother me?  Yes, but I'm willing to overlook their shenanigans for the sake of finally getting a Flash movie.  Besides that, they're a good actor, and I have faith that they can deliver a good performance in this movie.  On top of that we get Andy Muschietti, whose last movie was It chapters one and two.

The Flash has been my favorite comic book character since I was little.  As a kid I spent many happy afternoons lost in Cary Bates' and Carmine Infantino's run (heh heh) on the character.  I'm not that big a fan of recent Flash comics, but yeah, a Flash movie -- FINALLY.

Avengers: Secret Wars (2026)

If you haven't read it, Jonathan Hickman's reboot of the original comic series is good.  I wouldn't say that it's perfect, but it's ambitious in the way that all multiverse-spanning comic book events should be.  If you've read Hickman's reboot you'll know that the Fantastic Four tie in very closely with this saga, and I imagine that this will be more a sequel to Fantastic Four than another Avengers movie.

Of all the movies discussed here this is the furthest out.  Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania has been receiving mixed reviews, and the lukewarm response to that movie may force Marvel to rethink its plans with regard to both this movie and Avengers: Kang Dynasty.

Swamp Thing (no release date yet)

I loved Alan Moore's run on Swamp Thing.  From what James Gunn has said this will be more of a straight-ahead horror movie, but that doesn't mean that they can't transition into Moore-style weirdness later on.

Nothing is known about this movie except the title and that James Mangold might direct it.  

It'd be fun if it referenced the 1982 original in some way.  In case you're wondering yes, Adrienne Barbeau is still around.

Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow (no release date yet)

As with Swamp Thing, nothing is known about this movie apart from the title, but I'd be happy to see another take on Supergirl.  Whether this is the same Supergirl we'll see in The Flash this summer remains to be seen.

Avengers: The Kang Dynasty (2025)

Kang was far and away the best thing about Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania.  Jonathan Majors has enough presence to pull off the role, and Kang definitely poses enough of a threat to bring Earth's mightiest heroes into play.  Destin Daniel Cretton, who directed Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings, has already signed on as director.

Deadpool 3 (2024)

Deadpool and Wolverine should be fun.  The question mark is what parts of the MCU this movie will be allowed to play with, and whether or not this movie represents an effort to integrate Deadpool into the MCU.  Shawn Levy, who already directed Reynolds in Free Guy and The Adam Project will head up this one, with the same writers returning.  Filming should start in a couple months.

Superman: Legacy (2025)

It's high time for another Superman movie.  Both the character and the actor playing him have been jerked around a lot by the studio, but hopefully all of that's in the past.  I was a bit sad to see Henry Cavill leave, even if I get why they want to wipe the slate clean and start again.  According to James Gunn this film will be closer in tone to All Star Superman, a comic I enjoyed a great deal.


Spider-Man: Across the Spider-verse (2023)

I loved Spider-Man: Into the Spider-verse.  It was by far my favorite comic book movie of that year, and the sequel promises more of the same.  Check out the character/cast list on Wikipedia.  They pretty much threw everything and everyone they could into this movie.

Blade (2024)

The director, Bassam Tariq, has only directed one feature film, this being 2020's Mogul Mowgli.  That movie was well received by critics, and while I haven't seen it the reviews point toward someone who understands the nuances of character.

Two-time Academy Award winner Mahershala Ali will star as Blade, and filming should begin next month.  I'm a big fan of the character, and seeing how they incorporate him into the MCU should be interesting.

Anyone else up for a Wesley Snipes cameo?  I sure am.  The only thing better than that would be a peek at a new Ghost Rider.

Spider-Man: Beyond the Spider-verse (2024)

It's too early to get that excited about this one, but I'm fairly certain it will be good.  It was filmed simultaneously with Across the Spider-verse.

Blue Beetle (2023)

I was never that interested in the character.  I'm also not familiar with the Jaime Reyes version, which comes after Ted Kord, the character I grew up with.  Originally the character was "Charlton Comics' Batman," and he served as the inspiration for Night Owl in Alan Moore's Watchmen.

The Authority (no release date yet)

I'm not that familiar with this super team.  I've read a couple issues of Stormwatch, and I read the Authority/Planetary crossover in the back of The Planetary Omnibus.  The series caused quite a bit of controversy at DC comics, some of it resulting in having the artwork redrawn.

But I often enjoy controversy.  If they aim for a more "mature" audience it could be good.  Then again, one wonders if "more controversial" might invite unfavorable comparisons to The Boys.

Madame Web (2024)

Dakota Johnson stars as a comic book character I'm completely unfamiliar with.  I doubt Sony's version will have much to do with the comic book character, but Madame Web might be weird enough to be interesting.

Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 (2023)

Will I go see this in the theater this summer?  I guess it depends on where I am and what I'm doing.  I didn't enjoy the first two all that much, and I have no reason to believe the third movie will be qualitatively different.

I'd like to see Adam Warlock in live action however.  I've read and liked some of Jim Starlin's work on the character in the 70s.

Captain America: New World Order (2024)

More of Falcon and the Winter Soldier?  I didn't like the show.  I'm also not sure how I feel about Harrison Ford playing General Ross (R.I.P. William Hurt).  This said, I would like to see Tim Blake Nelson as The Leader.


Joker: Folie a Deux (2024)

Part of me really wishes they weren't making a sequel.  It feels like a Matrix situation, wherein they're never going to top the first one.  I like the idea of Lady Gaga as Harley Quinn, but the fact that this will be a musical is... perplexing.

The Brave and the Bold (no release date yet)

Supposedly this will be a "less grimdark" version of Batman, with the Bat Family taking center stage.  And while DC/Warner Bros. has already stated that there won't be four Batmans, I think even fewer Batmans would be better.  I get why they keep falling back on the character (money!), but really, the market for Batman is oversaturated now.

The Marvels (2023)

A sequel to the worst film in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.  I tried watching the Ms. Marvel series too.  Just couldn't get into it.

Thunderbolts (2024)

Marvel's Suicide Squad?  To me this movie feels like a wasted opportunity.  There are SO many more interesting lineups to choose from, and instead they chose Bucky, Ghost, U.S. Agent, Julia Louise-Dreyfus' character from Wakanda Forever and everyone who wasn't Black Widow from Black Widow.

Come on, Marvel.  You had a lot to work with here.  Every character from Iron Monger to M.O.D.O.K. was fair game.  Hell, you could've even "borrowed" Venom from Sony.  All I can say is the script better be good.

The Batman: Part II (2025)

Grimdarkness.  So much grimdarkness.  I realize this is an unpopular opinion, but I found The Batman very boring.  Given the Arkham games this version of Batman definitely has an audience, but I found him dull and depressing.

Shazam! Fury of the Gods (2023)

As much as I loved Captain Marvel (Shazam) when I was little, the first movie didn't do much for me.  It wasn't bad, really, just... unimpressive.  Quick!  Who was the villain in Shazam!?  What was his name?  Why was he evil?

I might go see this in the theater, I might not.  I had an interesting talk with my wife after we both saw the preview.  "Isn't he supposed to be wish fulfillment?" she asked, "And if so, why does he look so old?"

Kraven the Hunter (2023)

Betcha didn't know this is coming out next year.  Aaron Taylor-Johnson, who's played both "Dave" in the Kick-Ass movies and Quicksilver in the MCU, is set to star as Kraven.  The director, J.C. Chandor's last movie was Triple Frontier, an entertaining movie starring Ben Affleck, Oscar Isaac and others.  We'll see....

El Muerto (2024)

Who the hell is El Muerto?  And Why the hell is El Muerto?  In answer to the first question he's a wrestler with superhuman strength and a Spider-Man villain; in answer to the second I don't know.  Apparently someone at Sony liked Bad Bunny's performance in Bullet Train and crafted this movie around him.

Who knows?  It could be good.  If you're interested in the character's backstory click here.

Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom (2023)

I wasn't a fan of the first one.  It was talky, it was overlong, and the storyline was just short of coherent.  The second one?  I doubt I'll bother to see it in the theater.

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2019年10月30日 星期三

Upcoming Superhero Movies in the Order I Want to See Them 3

The previous entry in this series is to be found here.  Back when I wrote that, "Spider-Man: Homecoming 2" was the farthest movie out, and I saw that film - renamed Spider-Man: Far From Home - last summer.  Seems like the right time to do another one.

So what's on the horizon?  Here are the movies we can be relatively sure of, although in the case of The Flash Warner Bros. is always ready to play with my emotions:


Aquaman 2 (December 2022)
The Flash (July 2022)
Black Panther II (May 2022)
Shazam 2 (April 2022)
Thor: Love and Thunder (November 2021)
The Suicide Squad (August 2021)
Spider-Man: Far From Home Sequel (July 2021)
The Batman (June 2021)
Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness (May 2021)
Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings (February 2021)
The Eternals (November 2020)
Venom 2 (October 2020)
Morbius, the Living Vampire (July 2020)
Wonder Woman 1984 (June 2020)
Black Widow (May 2020)
The New Mutants (April 2020)
Bloodshot (February 2020)
Birds of Prey (February 2020)


...and of course there are ideas/plans for other superhero movies floating around Hollywood.  If Bloodshot is successful there will be a Bloodshot 2, followed by a cinematic adaptation of Harbinger.  Of all the studios, Sony's plans are probably the most difficult to anticipate, and Warner Bros. always reserves the right to change its mind.

I'll be grouping these movies according to "Gotta See It," "Might Go See It," and "It's Streaming, Why Not?"  Under these headings I'll be listing the movies from most to least anticipated.


Gotta See It

1. The Flash

Yeah, this movie's still doubtful but I'm dying to see it.  My dying to see it has nothing to do with Ezra Miller, Justice League, or even BvS.  The Flash has always been my favorite superhero, and until proven otherwise I think a solo movie featuring him would be the greatest thing ever.  The guy who directed It: Chapter One and It: Chapter Two is on board for this (at least for the moment), and this only makes me want to see it more.

2. The New Mutants

Anya Taylor-Joy as Magick!  That's some spot-on casting right there.  I worry that after the merger Marvel Studios has retooled this movie beyond recognition, but a cinematic adaptation of the Demon Bear story could be great.  Recent developments have me wondering if it's even going to be released theatrically, but if it is I'll go see it.

3. The Eternals

I think this movie will be Marvel's attempt to add an "upper level" to their cinematic universe, and for that reason it has me intrigued.  I was never a big fan of these characters in the comics, but I'm looking forward to seeing how they connect up to the rest of the MCU.  As much as I prefer DC's New Gods, Warner Bros.' plans for that movie become even less relevant after The Eternals.

4. Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness

I'm hoping this will be the mindfuck I wanted the first one to be.  It will also star Elizabeth Olson, an actress I'm happy to stare at for a couple hours.  Hopefully this movie will distance Stephen Strange even further from Tony Stark, in that he came across as "magic Iron Man" in the first movie.

5. The Batman

It should be solid.  The director has a proven track record and Robert Pattinson has been gaining indie cred for a while now.  I also like the recent addition of Paul Dano to the cast.

6. Wonder Woman 1984

The first one wasn't awesome, but I think with the mythology out of the way this one will be a lot of fun.  Patty Jenkins has directed some great movies, Gal Godot is able to carry a movie, and having Maxwell Lord as the villain is an interesting idea.


Might Go See It

1. Thor: Love and Thunder

I'll reserve judgement until I see the trailer.  Natalie Portman is one of my favorite actresses, but I found Ragnarok disappointingly jokey.  I do like the idea of Jane Foster becoming Thor though.  Again, we'll see...

2. Black Panther II

I really enjoyed the first one.  I just hope the second isn't more of the same.  Putting less of the sequel in Wakanda might be a good thing.

3. Spider-Man: Far From Home Sequel

Marvel can make another one.  I wasn't blown away by Peter Parker's European Vacation, but you just never know with Spider-Man.  There are a lot of good stories there, and maybe the next one will be better.

4. Shang Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings

I love kung fu movies, but if they tie this too closely into the rest of the MCU Shang Chi is probably going to suffer by comparison.  If they keep it small, if they keep it relatively grounded, it should be good.

5. Venom 2

Woody Harrelson as Carnage!  If anyone knows how to play psychos it's Woody Harrelson.  I'm worried about first-time director Andy Serkis, but the return of Tom Hardy bodes well for this movie.  I just hope they're working from a better script.

6. Morbius, the Living Vampire

Given that Venom was surprisingly... not bad I'm intrigued by this movie.  After the Suicide Squad fiasco Jared Leto has something to prove, and he's certainly been good in a lot of good movies.  I know next to nothing about the character, but it'll be interesting to see how Sony expands the universe.

7. Shazam 2

Not dying to see this, but maybe they'll do something cool with that multiverse concept introduced in the first movie.


It's Streaming, Why Not?

1. Aquaman 2

I was so totally not into the first movie.  The first movie was talky, full of plot holes, and generally trying way too hard to do way too many things.  I have no reason to think the sequel will be any different.

2. Birds of Prey

The recent trailer did nothing for me.  I have the feeling this movie is for young girls, and young girls only.  Margot Robbie was excellent in I, Tonya, but I can't find a single redeeming thing about this movie to hold on to.  Huntress?  Black Mask?  Who cares?

3. The Suicide Squad

I'm not a fan of James Gunn.  I'm sure it'll be better than the first one, but better by how much?  There's an outside chance I'll go see it in the theater, but only if the reviews are stellar.

4. Black Widow

Maybe it will be awesome, but I'm not sure how this character justifies her own movie.  Nothing in the previous MCU films makes me want to see this, and Scarlett Johansson has been in plenty of bad films.

5. Bloodshot

The trailer wasn't awful but it gave too much away.  If this is awesome and the Valiant universe becomes a thing I'll be as excited as anyone.  ...but I'm not holding my breath.  

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P.S. It's kind of fun to go back and read the first of these entries, written way back in 2014.  Sometimes I was right on the money, other times I was way off.

2018年1月12日 星期五

Ideas for DC Films

It's no secret that the DCEU is in a state of crisis (ha ha get it?).  Justice League tanked both critically and commercially, and one gets the feeling that Warner Bros. will scale down their plans quite a bit.  We'll still see Shazam, we'll still see Aquaman, and we'll still see Wonder Woman 2, but anything other than that is anybody's guess.

Below are five movies I would like to see in the DCEU.  I doubt we will ever actually see them, but then again you never know.



1. Justice Society

I'd like to do this as more of a Kingdom Come-style movie, with older superheroes coming out of retirement to fight some kind of monster and/or supervillain.  But here's the thing: remember that story arc where they were trapped in some alternate universe, endlessly fighting some world-ending foe?  I'd like to do it that way.  No origin story, just an older* Justice Society fighting a monster across the world.  And then - when they're about to die for the hundredth time - we learn that they've been reliving this scenario over and over again, and then they don't die, emerging into the same continuity as the rest of the DCEU.  This effectively retcons the entire DCEU much in the same way Flashpoint would have done, but now we get this whole fun backstory where the Justice Society weren't characters in a comic book (as in "Flash of Two Worlds,") but rather integral components in an entirely new universe.



2. A Decent Flash Movie**

I have never liked the Flash TV show, and I like Ezra Miller's version even less.  I really can't see why Warner Bros. and the CW are having such trouble adapting this character to the screen.  Ditch the silly leather outfits.  Dispense with the melodrama.  Give us an engaging backstory, and don't worry about whether audiences recognize the character from previous incarnations.  The Flash's costume and power set are in themselves the makings of a good movie.

There is some truth to the argument that the Flash isn't so much a character as a plot device.  When his comics are taken in their entirety, this has certainly been the case many times over.  But I think that a beginning could be made from Darwin Cooke's version of the character (the Flash that appears in The New Frontier), and from the version that appeared in the later issues of Cary Bates' run on The Flash ("the trial of the Flash").  Those two versions of the character have a very obvious center around his relationship with Iris West, and this center plus the visual elements of the character would make for a compelling film.

The real question is just how powerful to make him.  Stripped-down "metabolism Flash?"  Or "no-plausible-scientific-explanation Flash?"

Oh, and no more Speed Force.  The Speed Force is stupid.



3. The Marvel Family

It's too early to say what route they'll take with Shazam, but I'm hoping it's set during World War II.  This would open the door to the rest of the Marvel Family, and if done well could be a lot of fun besides.  I'd like to see Captain Nazi as the villain.

People keep bringing up Black Adam, but the trouble with Black Adam is that he doesn't really need Captain Marvel/Shazam.  What people think of as cool about Black Adam are qualities associated with later stories that Captain Marvel had little to do with.

Making a funny, kid-friendly Marvel Family movie seems like a no-brainer to me.  It'd be even better with Tawny and Uncle Dudley.  Throw realism out the window, and make a comic book movie that's really like a comic book.



4. Revisit Swamp Thing

Alan Moore wrote so many great comics for this character.  Any one of those comics could be easily adapted into a good film on a lower budget.  Make it adult.  Push boundaries.  Make it weird.

There's been a lot of chatter around a Justice League Dark movie, and although that's not a bad idea I think just bringing back Swamp Thing would be better.  There's also no reason you couldn't later connect a newer Swamp Thing with the existing movie starring Keanu Reeves.  The "trilogy thing" is getting a bit old now, but a Swamp Thing movie and the existing Constantine movie could easily lead into Justice League Dark, and you'd already have Reeve's name to build on.

And let's be real about it.  Zatanna's more of a sex object anyway.  Deadman?  Who really follows Deadman?  The Demon?  That rhyming guy?  Of course any of these characters could be interesting if written well, but it's not like people are clamoring for Zatanna, Deadman, or Demon solo films.



5. A Really F*cked Up Joker Movie

Yeah, yeah, I know the Suicide Squad movie was terrible.  Yet I can't fault Jared Leto for his performance, given the fact that the movie was obviously rushed into production before the script was ready.

And maybe, just maybe you were like me and got chills up your spine when you saw the shot of Joker lying on the floor in the midst of his "tools."  If you did then you've probably also read Brian Azzarello's "Joker," and right after that you were probably thinking about that scene where one of Joker's acquaintances emerges from behind a curtain without his skin.

The recent success of the movie It only emphasizes many people's deep-seeded fear of clowns, and in the right hands a Joker movie could be similarly terrifying.  Of course you'd want to recast (I still think Leto could have been great, but no need to have Suicide Squad hanging over anything), but I could see such a movie working regardless of whether it was set inside the current DCEU continuity.

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*I'm thinking 40s or 50s, still fit but obviously older.  This would put the "pocket universe" in the 50s or 60s.  Perhaps uncomfortable close to "Watchmen time," but Watchmen was released so long ago, and received such a lukewarm response, that I don't think this is much of an issue.

**Here's an idea: how about a revenge movie featuring Barry Allen.  Eobard Thawne has already killed Iris, and beaten him almost to death, and in the wake of Allen's defeat Thawne is posing as The Flash.  The Flash, after a period of "training," assumes the mantle of Reverse-Flash as a means of overcoming the psychopath impersonating him.  They fight, and in the course of their battle the events leading up to Barry Allen's assumption of the Reverse-Flash mantle are slowly revealed, leading to the defeat of Eobard Thawne.